IPFC 06: Everything You Wanted to Know About RRSP’s and TFSA’s

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Christine: Hi everyone and welcome to its personal finance, Canada. This is Christine, and I’m here with Cameron today. And today we’re going to talk to you about the different types of accounts that you can invest in.

Cameron: What do you mean by different types of accounts? Like checking accounts savings account?

Christine: Talking a little bit more big picture, so people have their RRSP’s, there’s nothing more Canadian than an RRSP. Their tax free savings accounts, non-registered accounts, locked in accounts. There’s just so many out there. So what I wanted to do today was shed a little light on these different types that we have and when we might want to use different ones.

Cameron: I like RRSP’s because it reminds me of pirates. Rrr arrrr, defer mi taxes.

Christine: RRSP’s are definitely one of the most favorite Canadian ways to save. And I mean honestly they’ve been around for quite some time now. So that’s part of the reason I think that they’re popular. And we can jump in and talk about those right off the bat if you’d like, but they fit within my number one rule for investment accounts. Which is you want to choose an account that has preferential tax treatment, so that means you’re looking at either an RRSP or a TFSA. And we’ll talk about the TFSA’s a little bit more later.

What is an RRSP  

Cameron: So what makes these RRSP’s So special? And what do you mean their tax preferred? Do get an extra little gold star from the CRA if you use them?

Christine: Well, they’re, called RRSP’s or registered retirement savings plans because they’re registered with the CRA. So really  that’s the big trick. And the registered part, all that really means is the CRA is tracking how much you’re using. Them just to make sure that the you’re not using them more than you should be?

Cameron: Well how much am I allowed to use it then?

Christine: Sure so every person can put in up to eighteen percent per year and there’s kind of an overarching higher amount. That kind of acts as a cap at the top. It’s an annual limit and it changes every year. So in 2021 that was $27,830 and that would be reduced by RRSP and it would also be reduced by any money that went into a pension on your behalf or into a group RRSP or really any kind of savings for your retirement.

Cameron: But who has group plans and pensions and all that at work any more? Are we kind of just on our own most of the time?

Christine: A lot of us are you know, so that’s why it’s really important to look at these different types accounts and when we might want to use some of them more than others. So for the person that you just mentioned, that maybe doesn’t have a group plan or doesn’t have a pension at work and is just on their own for savings. We all know how difficult it is to save these days right, we’re kind of scrimping and saving trying our best to get by and sometimes long term savings like retirement seems to be the last thing on people’s lists.

Cameron: Well, even just going back a couple weeks ago to one of our last podcast, where most people are spending all their time, saving for a house, so retirement kind of falls by the wayside and all this.

Christine: And it does kind of get pushed down the line, which is why it’s really important to talk about it, just to get it back in the forefront of people’s minds, because I always like to remember people or like to try and remind people that you’re actually funding thirty plus years of your life, where there’s no pay check coming.

Who shouldn’t use an RRSP

But let’s talk for a second about people that should not use an RRSP. And that’s kind of what you were hinting at there. If someone has a lower income, then an RRSP might not be the right fit for them. And what do I mean by low income? There’s the basic personal amount. We’ve got one here in BC and there’s a federal amount as well. In BC, it’s just under $14,400 for 2022 and the federal is basically is going up to $15,000 by 2023. And what that basic amount is. Is you get? It’s called a non-refundable tax credit and that’s a bunch of mumbo jumbo that says if you earn less than that amount, so let’s  use the federal$15,000 in 2023 if you earn less than that, you can reduce your tax bill to zero dollars. But let’s say you had more credits then, and it would take you beyond that zero. You don’t get money back, so you don’t get that refund back, which is why it’s called non-refundable.

Cameron: So the goal is to have a job where only make $15,000 per year.

Christine: No! But I’m just saying for someone, that’s earning that amount and that’s it for the year, and I mean that could be a number of people with COVID right. Some people were laid off. They had limited earnings during the year or maybe they just received some of these partial CERB benefits. If income was at that level or lower and of course the the personal amounts will vary by province, but there’s absolutely no good reason to put money in an RRSP in that tax year, because there’s nothing to reduce there’s no tax credit, there’s no room for further deduction, which is why you would use an RRSP.

Who Should use an RRSP

Cameron: So then, who would benefit from using an RRSP if you’re making more than the $15,000 a year and you actually have a full time job?

Christine: Yeah absolutely, so there actually is kind of a sweet spot that I like to look at. And when I’m looking at this, I’m going to talk again about BC, because that’s where we are here. So what I do is I look at the combined BC and Federal tax rates. Which sounds much more complicated than it is. But basically, what you’re trying to look at is your marginal tax rate, which just says how much tax am I going to pay on the next dollar earned. And basically, if we’re looking at 2022, if someone had an income in BC of just over $43,000 so $43,700 they’re paying tax at about 20% and between that that threshold there and up to $50,197 the tax is about 22.7%. So you can see there that the taxes are fairly low and after that, so after you’ve kind of crossed that $50,200 that’s when it starts increasing to the 28%  and then the more you earn, the more you pay. Because tax rates in Canada are progressive, so it just means they go up as you earn more so who could benefit from an RRSP? I would say it’s most beneficial for someone over that second tax bracket. So someone that’s earning more than say $50,200 and these numbers can change as the tax brackets change year over year. But below that you could find yourself in a position where you’re putting money in you’re getting your tax deduction. But when you take it out down the road you’re still paying the same tax rate, so you could still be in that lowest tax bracket or the one just above it, and then there’s really not one of the big advantages of an RRSP that you can use and that is to pay less tax now and then benefit from the deferral, which means your money can grow without being taxed for the whole length of time that you’ve got it in the plan. But then the ultimate goal is to take it out at a lower tax right. Does that kind of make sense?

Cameron: Oh yeah for the most part.

RRSP and tax deferrals

Christine: Yeah, so basically you’re looking at three different things. The first thing is making sure that you’ll put the money in and get a refund at a lower rate than when you’ll take the money out later on. That’s kind of the big trick number one with an RRSP.

Cameron: So if I’m understanding this right, so let’s say I put $5,000 into an RRSP. I get a $5,000 tax credit for this year and then all that $5,000 dollars goes into account where it can grow untouched until I finally decide to take it out and then it gets taxed. Because otherwise, that $5,000 dollars you take off a third and what’s left could go to investments. But this way the entire $5,000 can go and grow and just get tax at the very end right yeah?

Christine: And it’s actually it’s a tax deduction that what you get. So what that means is it reduces the amount of tax that you’re paying, and so let’s say like in your example. Let’s say you had a salary of $5,000 you put in the $5,000 into your RRSP. Well now, your taxable income is going to be the $45,000 instead of the $50,000.

Cameron: Which can be good sometimes because, if you kind of play it right can actually drop you down a bracket.

Christine: Exactly- and that is very much the name of the game, and that is how we determine not only who should put money into an RRSP, but how much. Because, like I said, once you get into those lower tax, brackets, you’re really kind of minimizing the opportunity, because you’re not getting as much back as you could had, you put it in when your income was higher. Or in an a one off year, where you may have received a taxable severance or some other lump some amount. That would really increase your taxable income for that year. So, when you do put money in your RRSP, what you’re actually getting back in a lot of cases is tax that you’ve already paid. So most people, it sounds a little silly, but most people have tax withheld from their pay checks. And it’s you kind of get used to it right. You get used to the amount. That’s going into your bank account every two weeks and you don’t really think about your gross your before tax before deduction amount. So because this tax has already come off the top. Now that you’ve made an RRSP contribution. You’re really just getting it back.

Cameron: And if you get enough of back, you get a refund to the end of the year.

Christine: You do yeah. So that is a positive thing and there’s also with an RRSP. Let’s say you’ve gotten you’ve put in more than you think it makes sense for you to use in that year. You can actually carry forward the usage to a future year, so you don’t necessarily have to take the full deduction, because if you get into a situation where you’re getting too much money back, you may have dropped yourself into a lower tax bracket where once again, you’re minimizing the percentage of tax that you’re getting back. I mean that’s not to say that no one loves a good refund. We certainly do but to a certain extent it does mean that you’ve overpaid taxes that year

Why overcontributing to an RRSP is bad

Cameron: So all of this sounds well and good. But what happens if I put too much money into an RRSP in a single year?

Christine: If you take too much and you’ve gone over that limit? So let’s say: You’ve used up all of your RS P contribution and you’ve gone over that $27,000 and change, which is the maximum for this year. You can get penalized and this is something that the CRA tracks. So I do always encourage people to look at their My CRA account if you visit that online. Or even just your notice of assessment, which is the sheet of paper that you get back after you’ve, filed your tax return. Once someone has looked at it where they basically say yep you’re doing a ok, or nope, we’ve reassessed your account and guess what you owe some money. Or here we’re giving you back a little bit more. But that notice of assessment will give you the figure of what you have unused. If you are over, then you can be assessed penalties so there’s about a $2,000 wiggle room that they’ll give you. But then you’re taxed at about a 1% per month for whatever period of time that that excess amount is in your account. So you really, really don’t want to leave it in there. It’s a bit of a hassle, but it’s certainly worth it to get that money out if you have gone over. But let’s continue with our conversation and talking about maybe people that should not use the RRSP. You know and it’s a little contrarian because, like I said, nothing is more Canadian than in an RRSP. People here seem to love them and it was the only game in town for years and years and years. But going back to your very first example where you were saying.

Cameron: With the pirates?

Christine: Not the pirates. Where you were talking about someone who maybe didn’t have a pension at work and didn’t have group savings and were really all on their own. So all of their retirement savings is going to come down to what they can do for themselves and if you put that same person in the position where, like you said, they’re trying to save for a down payment, maybe they’re trying to put their own kids through school through post secondary. There might not be a lot left to save. So in those situations where people enter retirement with very little saved. There’s a bit of a reliance on the government benefits that become available to people as early as sixty, but sixty-five is kind of the number for the bigger ones, but a lot of the government benefits care about two things: they’re, looking at your marital status, which is really just because they want to know if there’s two people earning an income or collecting a benefit in your household but they’re. Also looking at your total income and your income is very important because it will determine whether or not you meet these thresholds to qualify for some of these government benefits.

RRIF it, RIFF it Good

And if you find yourself in a position where your income is too high, because let’s say you put money into an RRSP and you’ve deferred it for all these years, and then you turn seventy one. Then the government starts to say: Okay, you know you’ve had all this great deferral time to pay some tax. So money has to start coming out of these plans at the absolute latest age seventy two. So you’re converting them over at seventy one to something that’s going to produce income, that’s usually either an annuity which is very similar to a pension plan or a registered retirement income fund (RRIF), which is where people get a percentage of the total balance in their count back every month and then anything left in there eventually gets taxed and paid to your your beneficiaries.

Cameron: If I’m understanding this right, you’re saying that you can only have your RRSP running for so long and then when you turn seventy one, they force you to convert into RRIF and you have to start taking withdrawals out of it. So you can’t just keep this money locked away indefinitely.

Government benefits and your RRSP

Christine: That’s right and that’s where the government benefits kind of come into play. So the big one is the Guaranteed Income Supplement and that’s for people that are over age sixty five, and the qualifying threshold and keep in mind that this changes every year,. But right now, if you’re, a single widow a divorce. So if it’s just you and your household, the threshold is about $19,248 So that’s pretty low right, so that’s really a person that is just receiving government benefits, and maybe they have money in a tax free savings account that they’re also taking income from on a regular basis. But that does not show up on your tax return. So you can’t actually it would not affect qualification. The way that a withdrawal from an RRSP or a RRIF would. And it’s not chump change we’re playing for either the maximum pay out for a guaranteed income supplement is just under $950 per month if you’re single and it’s lower, if you’re a couple. It’s about half, $500 and a, more than half, $571 and the income test goes up as well to the mid $25,000 range. But that’s something that if you have more taxable income than you would have, otherwise that could affect your ability to qualify. There’s also the Old Age Security benefit, which is something that’s very familiar to Canadians, and that’s one that has a threshold on the higher end. where, let’s say your income is higher, so you’re not receiving the guaranteed income supplement, but you could be in a position where your old age security gets clawed back. If your income is over just over $79,000 this year. And it’ll be gone completely if your income exceeds $128,000 and change, and that’s again this year, because this does this does adjust annually. So it’s a bit of a moving target. The amounts are always different. So those are things that you want to consider: it’s not necessarily just putting the money in and getting that tax deduction. It’s making sure that you’re using the type of a count that makes the most sense.

How TFSA’s help you save without worrying about taxes

So if we pop over to TFSA’s that we kind of touched on briefly here, you know they started out small and people really weren’t, maybe giving them the attention that they needed. Because it was originally just $5,000, and you know that that doesn’t really move the needle for a lot of people. But if you were eighteen, when the plan started in 2009 and you’ve been getting your contribution room every single year by 2022 that’s $81,500. So if you’ve got two people and they each have TFSA’s that they’ve been maxing out over these years. Then it becomes a significant amount that you can play with a so. I love TFSA’s for two different reasons. The first is, they are an excellent way to save and watch your money compound and then take it out tax free down the road. So when we’re talking about deferrals for RRSP’s, take out the deferral part, this is just fully tax free. So I like, if someone tells me they’re, using their TFSA for long term savings or for eventual legacy reasons to pass to their children. I love putting the highest growth assets in a TFSA because you want to maximize you’ve only got so much contribution room. So you want to maximize how much you can keep tax free as long as possible.

Cameron: If So you’re saying your experience: Do you prefer putting like managed, equities or seg funds like that into TFSA’s instead of like bonds or GIC’s?

Don’t Waste Your TFSA on the Wrong Investment Type

Christine: That’s right. When TFSA’s first came out, you saw the banks do, we had so many people that you know would say to us? We’ve got this TFSA being offered to us by the bank, and they really didn’t realize that you can hold such a wide range of product within either a TFSA or even an RRSP. And we saw a lot of people put GIC’s in these TFSA’s which, in my mind, is a great under utilization. Because A interest rates are so so low. So, yes, you’re not paying tax but you’re not paying tax on a couple bucks. So what was what was the point right? Is that something that would have been better served in in your bank account and your regular checking account or something like that, because your tax bill would be very minimal. And maybe the TFSA could be used for something else. So going back to my number one rule where you want to use a tax preferred account, it’s an RRSP or it’s TFSA. And TFSA’s as hold a lot of great advantages for people who, in their later years, when they’re, trying to control their income want to take out lump sums. So think about it this way. Just picture yourself as retired. So you’ve stopped working life is good, but you know, maybe you don’t have a pension, you’re living off of your own savings right now and you’re trying to keep your old age security, and you know you can’t bump your income up over a certain threshold. But this is the year that you wanted to take a nice vacation. Maybe it’s a big wedding anniversary, but your car just broke down and your roof needs to be fixed. So there’s a number of things that will require big chunks of change like big lump sum, withdrawals of cash. And where’s it going to come from. I love TFSA’s for this type of reason. Because it’s not going to show up on your tax return and that can be a really, really good thing.

Cameron: Well, in some ways they could be a better alternative than sort of like the HLOC’s way people go, they have a big bill and they just take a line of credit out against their house. But you’re stuck paying interest on that. If you actually build up and take care of your TFSA, you can just take that money out. You’ll still have money there accruing  interest, you just pay back at your leisure without any kind of penalties.

Christine: Exactly and I mean there’s other good benefits to like a lot of people. We’ve talked about downsizing before and we’ve talked about people that eventually need to move into care, or you know in BC here we have income tested facilities. Where kind of the standard is they look at your tax return and take about 80% of your income. TFSA does not show up on your tax return right and even a non-registered plan. Non-registered. So if we said RRSP is registered with the CRA so that they can control how much you put in non registered basically just means that it’s not. So it’s a saving type, that’s not tax preferred. And what that means is you’re going to pay tax each year on any income that you’ve generated within that account. So any growth or any gains.

Cameron: Not only are you being charged tax, but you’re also dealing with capital gains you’re dealing with dividend income taxes, you’re dealing with a whole bunch of different things that you don’t have to really worry about with the TFSA. So, with a lot of people better to like kind of max out your TFSA and then can go, the non registered route later. Where a lot of people do it the other way around. They have their non-registered, but they never used their TFSA and they’re, stuck dealing with capital gains, dividend income,  basic income tax and all that.

The Versatility of a TFSA

Christine: Yeah and that’s a huge, missed opportunity. Since the TFSA’s are available to us, if you’re eligible to open one. Why wouldn’t you kind of thing right because, like we said you can you can invest in most assets that you would want to invest in in a non-registered anyways. So that can be segregated funds, which is something that we use quite a bit for estate planning at our practice, which is it’s a very, very efficient way to pass money to the next generation? You can hold mutual funds. You can hold ETF’s, you can hold a whole wide range

Cameron: And even some companies will let you hold just stocks through your TFSA.

Christine: Ya you know, and if we’re circling back to RRSP’s self directed RRSP’s were very popular because some people want that ability to manage things themselves. But going back to non-registered plans here. Capital gains, that’s kind of one of these. These big uncertain question marks right now right when, when we’re talking about the capital gains inclusion weight, so half of it, it’s fifty percent right now, which means half of your gain or growth, is taxable. But the government can change that just by means of a policy change you know, kind of whenever they want and with our federal debt being at a record high. That’s definitely something that is probably going to be grabbing people’s attention in the near future. So when you use a non-registered accounts, you really are leaving the taxation in someone else’s hands to a certain extent, because you can’t control what that tax rate is going to be what the inclusion in your income is going to be so, like Cameron said, I love the idea of TFSA’s first and then non registered as a last resort and the RRSP’s  fit kind of somewhere in the middle, depending on what your income will be during retirement. And I think that that is something that more people. It really serves you well to do an income retirement income projection just so that you can kind of ballpark where your income is going to be, because that will really help you make a lot of these other decisions about. How much should I put in my RRSP give that I could have tax deferred growth, for whatever the period of time is from now until your retirement. But if you do decide that an RRSP is the right fit for you, there are kind of other variations of RRSP’s that you might want to look into as well.

What is a Spousal RRSP

Spousal RRSP’s are something that we’ve seen are very underutilized and they’re an incredible tool. A Spousal RRSP is basically where you have a couple that is either married or in a common law relationship, and one of the two partners earned significantly more than the other. So or maybe one is a stay at home parent, but in either case there’s a difference, a significant difference in income and for this strategy to work well, the higher income earning spouse has to have some room available to make a contribution. Because the contribution will reduce their unused RRSP contribution room and not their spouses. So basically, if I’m the higher income earning spouse in the scenario, I would put money in to an RRSP in Cameron’s behalf. I would get the tax deduction, but the money that I’ve put into the RRSP becomes his property, so I’m actually giving that over to him and down the road when we’re both retired. Instead of just me taking out from my RRSP, which couldn’t push me into a high tax bracket, we now have two registered products, two RRSP’s to take out of. So now. He and I can both move through the lower tax bracket all the way up, or as far as our income goes, so that were really splitting the income. We’re splitting the effect of taxation between two people, and that’s just one of the benefits of if you’re married or, like I said, in a common law relationship. You can use that to your advantage, and it really does help lower your overall tax build during retirement.

RRSP’s and your group plan

Another great use of RRSP’s if you have a group plan at work. Now, we’ve seen group plans become quite a bit more popular and I mean it’s a product that we do as well. Maybe that’s why we’re seeing it. But fewer employers, unless your part of the public sector are willing to make that commitment to give you a defined benefit pension plan any more. And what a define benefit pension plan is. Is it’s a product that basically says when you’re sixty-five you’ll get x amount of dollars and they guarantee that for the rest of your life? Now that can have huge unfunded liabilities that can cost the company lots and lots of money, or in this case the government, so there’s been a shift away from these

Cameron: Yeah with defined benefit, it’s essentially, you’re guaranteed to get a certain amount, no matter what happens in the markets. But the same time. companies are unwilling because of the cost, or we have other examples, such as when Sears folded a couple of years ago. There are still all those pension liabilities that are being fought out in court right now. So you need the company to survive, and you need the markets to cooperate. Which is why a lot of non government employers have kind of pulled away from this.

Christine: And what they’ve been doing instead is these group RRSP’s, and most of them are structured with a match. And what a match is, its basically, the employer saying we’re going to offer you up to a certain percentage of your income. So it might be one percent, two percent five percent, but you’re only going to get that from us if you also put in that same amount up to the maximum. So the one percent, two percent, five percent. And a lot of people kind of scratch their heads and go, jeese, do I really want five percent less in my take home pay? But they miss that it could actually be ten percent compounding on their behalf for as long as they remain with that employer.

Cameron: Yeah. I believe legally that after two years you get to keep all of it.

Christine: Yes, that’s right, that’s a vesting requirement and that’s pretty standard. And essentially what it means is, if you leave before the two year mark, you would just get what you put in back your own contributions. So in our example, that’s your five per cent. But if you’ve stayed past that to your mark, then that money becomes vested to you. so it becomes your property and at that point in time, if you leave, you would get that full ten per cent and, depending on how the plan is structured, there may be a requirement to transfer it over into a locked in plan. That’s a whole other conversation for a different day, but basically it has minimums and maximums and a bunch of rules around what you can take out and when so we’ll let that one be for now. But group plans with a match, always a great idea. If you have a group RRSP please talk to your HR and find out if you’re maximizing your usage in that plan. There’s also usually a representative with the company that is doing your group RRSP that can talk to you if you have any concerns about, if you’re investing in the right thing in your RRSP or if what you’ve chosen is appropriate for you. Because one of the downsides of these things is you’re kind of usually left alone to select it yourself. Unless you take that step proactively to talk to a representative from the company.

Using a Group RRSP to retain employees

Cameron: And not just for employees but also any small business owners, this is also a great way to help retain employees and to act as like a reward system. Because it’s getting harder and harder to keep employees in a lot of sectors right now and any kind of added benefit like this can actually go a pretty long way.

Christine: It can, and it’s one of those good will things right. It makes everybody feel good, and you know we’ve seen some cases where employers are used to giving like a small cost of living adjustment. It might be under one percent or something like that, but sometimes they’ll just view this as part of the same thing. So it’s just something that has to be done to keep your employees interested so that they don’t go to the competition.

Using an RRSP to buy your first home

And there is another benefit of having money in your RRSP. If you are trying to get into that home for the first time and yourself and your partner or your common spouse, or marriage partner have not yet owned a home. You can actually use your RRSP for up to $35,000 that you can borrow from yourself without having to have this be taxable. And you get fifteen years to pay it back. And that’s a really good advantage, because, when you’re saving with an RRSP, we were talking about how you get that refund right. So, depending on where your income lies, you might be getting 20% back. You might be getting 30% back. You might be getting more. What a lot of people will do if they have a goal like using the home buyers plan, is they’ll put money in the RRSP, with the idea that they won’t go over, that $35,000 limit and then they’ll use the refund that they got from putting that money in the RRSP’s to put it back in the RRSP, generate more of a refund, and it actually gets them to that $35,000 goal faster. Because not only are using your contributions, you’re accelerating it by also using your tax refund. And when we do, this kind of planning for people will look at where they fall in the tax brackets and we’ll look at how to maximize that. So we’ll set up a certain dollar amount that they should put in each year over a period of a couple of years, just to get that taking care for them. There’s also the lifelong learning plan, which works in a very similar way to the home buyers plan. And it’s for people, even adults that are looking to go back to an accredited secondary education. That one has a maximum of $10,000 that you can take out per year for a couple of years. So it’s a bit of a lesser benefit but still useful to some people.

How do I get an RRSP or TFSA?

Cameron: All this sounds great, but how do I actually get an RRSP or a TFSA? Do I just go downtown and yell on the street, Hey, give me RRSP and someone from some financial firm will come downstairs. Or how does this all work?

Christine: Yeah, I mean lots of people, do them at their banks. My big concern there is, you might be getting the flavor of the week and maybe not necessarily the financial planning advice that could go with that.

Cameron: And with the mutual funds, the new Know Your Product regulations, a lot of banks are actually getting rid of a vast majority of their investment offerings. All of the third party stuff is gone. So you’re getting a very, very small pool of options. Now,

Christine: That’s right. We’ve always been advocates of using an independently owned and operated firm, which full disclosure we are. But I think the big advantage there is, I’m contracted with a number of these big banks, as well as a number of other companies as well across Canada. So we can really take a high level of view. Look at product look at fit and there’s such a huge range of funds available. We like managed funds solutions, but we also have passive funds for people that like to follow the indexes and just do some bench marking at much lower fees than you would. If you had like an actively managed solution. So we always encourage people to shop around and if they come to our door, we can kind of show them that you know we have a lot to choose from and that really does help us give a better fit.

Cameron: With an independent, firm like yours, you can kind of show people the good, the bad and the ugly from about a dozen different carriers and banks right?

Christine: Absolutely. So I always encourage people to get a second opinion and I to make sure that they’re getting advice, because, whether you do it at the bank or you do it at an independent planning firm like ours, you are paying fees in the form of the management expense ratios if you’re using a fund to invest, and we want to make sure that you’re getting good value for the money that you’re paying. So we always offer our planning services as part of the package when someone chooses to use us for their investments. So rather than saying: okay, yes, we’re going to bill you X  amount of dollars. We like to keep our phone lines open so that people feel comfortable calling us at any point in time when things change or when they just want to chat about what’s going on in their lives and how it impacts their finances. So we’re always available we’re always happy to meet New People, and you can check us out at braunfinancial.com we’ve got lots of content. That’s coming up on a regular basis, so feel free to follow us on social media, subscribe and check it out. We’re happy to continue to give you little nuggets and share little bits of information here and there, and hopefully, one day will get to meet you in person. So until then take care and all the best!